Travel Blog Camp in London
Posted by Caitlin on 12 Nov 2008 at 09:48 pm | Tagged as: Blogging, Europe
The inaugural Travel Blog Camp in London hosted around 80 bloggers and travel industry folk - and some heated discussions.
I had planned to attend World Travel Market either yesterday or today but I’ve been bogged down with a feature deadline. I’m working in an office for the rest of the week so it now looks like I won’t make it this year. To be honest, I’m fine with that. I went two years ago and I wore myself out traipsing around the ExCel centre in London Docklands and collected a huge swathe of business cards and brochures that I never looked at again. I don’t tend to plan either my travelling or my travel writing that way - as a writer I look for interesting stories rather than destinations and as a traveller, there’s no shortage of cool places I’d love to go.
I did, however, go to the Travel Blog Camp organised by Darren from Travel Rants last night. I must say I’m hugely impressed by Darren’s efforts and the fact that he even found sponsorship. The event was in a great location - Doggetts bar on South Bank near Blackfriars Bridge, which is a bit of an ugly building outside but has fabulous space inside and views of the river. When I was told he had close to 100 people registered (about 80 actually attended), I was shocked because I didn’t think there were that many serious travel bloggers in the UK.
The reason became clear on the night - it wasn’t just bloggers but also travel industry professionals and PRs who wanted to engage with bloggers and learn all about how they could be using social media in their own businesses. There were about 80 people in total and I met a fair few of them in the social time before and after the speeches, including Heather from Heather on her Travels and James from itravelnet. I mainly went for the networking opportunities but I actually really enjoyed the speeches - and surrounding debate - as well. I took photos but they didn’t turn out as it was really rather dark and I didn’t use a flash - but I did catch a snap of the welcome sign, which amused me greatly for the novel spelling of ‘blog’. (Blame Doggetts, not Darren, for that one!).
Alex Bainbridge, Musings on travel ecommerce
Our first speaker was Alex Bainbridge, a travel industry consultant who blogs at Musings on travel ecommerce. His name is at the top of his blog and this is deliberate. “I believe a blog should be from a personal perspective - there’s no point trying to be better than the news because you can’t be and people aren’t looking for a rehash of the news on a blog,” Alex said in his speech. Do you agree?
For him, blogging is all about hosting great conversations and he admitted he is sometimes guilty of “extreme blogging” to provoke a reaction in the comments section. “I see comments as a bit of currency so if someone writes something really good on their blog I’ll make time to go and comment,” he added. He said he could envisage a time when he might stop blogging if he found somewhere else to have the conversations he craves, though so far he has resisted the allure of Facebook and Twitter.
Karen Bryan, Europe a la Carte
Europe a la Carte is one of the most successful independent travel blogs both in the UK and globally. Karen Bryan is the founder and she has now taken on other writers, turning it into a multi-author blog cum online travel magazine. Karen’s speech was about the different types of travel blogs and what the future holds for each.
Her first category of travel blog is an online personal travel diary. These bloggers keep their sites for the benefit of family and friends, so they have a written record of the trip, and sometimes to showcase themselves as a potential travel writer. They are often hosted for free by platforms such as Wordpress and Blogger or specific travel-themed equivalents such as Travellers Point and Where Are You Now?. Karen believes this category of blog will continue as long as there is enough quality content for the platforms to make money from advertising.
Her next category of blog is an interactive online travel magazine. This includes offerings from big media organisations such as the Guardian’s Travel Blog and also independent sites such as her own or Darren’s Travel Rants. The former will be able to make money from advertising because they are part of a bigger site. However, life has become more difficult for blogs like hers because of Google’s crackdown on text link ads - bloggers that flout Google’s policy can have their page rank reduced to zero, which a deadly effect on traffic. Karen said one opportunity for online travel magazines is to band together as an advertising network with other sites with quality content. She is currently experimenting with Ad Roll to see if this would work for her. This is the first I’ve heard of Ad Roll and it sounds really interesting. Have any of you used it and have you had much success?
The third category, according to Karen, includes marketing blogs by established travel brands. She said this can work “as long ad you realise that a blog is a lot of time and effort - it’s low cost compared with advertising on ITV but you have to keep it up and keep pushing it”.
She bemoaned the fact that posts written with search engine robots in mind often outperformed quality content in terms of traffic. She said she wanted to see more aggregation of quality content within travel blogging. What do you think? Do you agree with Karen’s appraisal?
Molly Flatt, STA Travel Buzz
STA Travel has done something quite brave in social media - and it prompted quite a bit of heated debate last night. The travel agency has employed a social marketing specialist 1000 Heads to create STA Travel Buzz, which is a place for STA’s customers, typically young travellers, to connect on the web. Molly Flatt from 1000 Heads gave the presentation.
Molly says STA does not comment on the site, even when there is negative feedback. She feels this would be intrusive and destroy the atmosphere of the site for users. “The idea of having CEOs monitoring conversations going on and commenting on things is my worst nightmare,” she says. “We’re not their customer service department and it would be a dangerous path to start down.” She defended her stance passionately but many in the audience were aghast at this stance, feeling that users would expect a response. What do you think?
The other initiative 1000 Heads has taken for STA is STA Explorers, where they network and link to the travel blogs of STA customers. She pointed out that this was not a matter of reaching out to established bloggers, it was genuinely a case of encouraging customers to blog. The blogs are on several different platforms, which she hopes will mean a wider readership as some readers only stay within the community of their own platform.
Kevin May, editor of Travolution
Travolution is a business magazine for the online travel industry and it has an attached blog. [Full disclosure: I used to work with Kevin at Media Week and I've written for him at Travolution].
Kevin hosted a conversation rather than giving a speech. He had got hold of the guest list and calculated that 20% of the people in the room were in public relations, so he started off by asking people why they came along. Jane from Thomson Holidays and Sarah from Holiday Rentals both said they were just starting to explore social media, trying to figure out what it was about, what the terms of engagement were, and how they could use it. Charlotte from Lastminute.com said the company had already started to dip its toes into the water, with a presence on Twitter for example.
The second conversation was prompted by a conversation Kevin had with Guido, the Happy Hotelier, on the difference between journalists and bloggers. Kevin’s view is that there is no difference because they’re both just content producers. A few people in the audience suggested differences, such as bloggers’ willingness to link to the outside world and the fact that journalists will ask for input before they write a story, whereas bloggers give right of reply in the comments section. Karen from Europe a la Carte said readers didn’t care whether the work was by a ‘trained journalist’ or a ‘blogger’ as long as they were reading quality content. I also added my 2p worth as I believe that while journalists and bloggers might both be content producers, I thought that was meaningless. Content production is huge category that also includes people like a script writer on Desperate Housewives or producer on Sesame Street. What do you think?
All in all, it was an interesting and worthwhile night. Thanks, Darren, for organising it. I hope I’ve given everyone plenty of food for thought and look forward to a conversation in the comments field.
That’s a great summary Caitlin, you were obviously taking notes while I was getting lost in the heated debate and wondering when I’d get a chance to buy my next gin and tonic.
Hats off to Darren from Travel Rants for organising it, and I truly hope it will happen again next year and that the UK Travel blogger numbers will have grown substantially by then.
It was so interesting to see that some big hitters like Lonely Planet, Lastminute.com and Thomson were there to dip a toe in the blogging world and see what we were up to.
Hi Caitlin,
Nice round up. It was certainly an interesting event - let’s hope Darren does it again next year. In the mean time, maybe someone should set up some kind of forum online where people from PR, marketing, print journalism, SEO, etc, can interact with the travel blogging community. I get the impression that many bloggers resent people in these industries leaving comments on their blogs, which seems odd to me. I would have thought there’s an argument for widening the conversation.
Mark
[...] Roaming Tales has posted a nice summary. [...]
Hi Mark,
I cannot speak with all bloggers but I do not understand where these industries get the impression that we do not like them leaving comments.
If the comments are on-topic, not full of links and advertising, keyword terms aren’t in the ‘name’ field then anyone from anywhere is welcome to comment on any of my blog posts.
I am sure Karen, Heather and Caitlin will agree with me there.
I also wanted to just clarify the point about text link ads. Google does not penalise a site in that it removes them from the search results, it simply reduces their Google Page Rank, to stop other companies from advertising.
Google frowns upon companies that uses text link ads to manipulate the search results.
Sorry to add; the night gave me some food for thought especially around how the travel industry, media, interacts with bloggers, and how that can be improved.
I can understand companies like Thomson having a policy for staff when dealing with the internet, but, I have people comment who I know work for large tour operators but leave comments anon, under their christian name and use a personal email address.
I have no problem with this because I want people from within the industry to communicate on consumer issues.
This is an interesting area about Google “penalising” sites that sell text links. It’s often said, but I’m skeptical. How would Google know? It isn’t just putting out this warning to sell more Adwords, is it?
There are certain signals that might flag up a link as possibly paid-for. For example, it could be unrelated to the content of the blog, or it could appear on the homepage alongside the blogroll.
But if I’m a blogger and I write a post about a product offered by company X and say I like that product, how could a search engine possibly know whether or not company X has paid me?
Maybe that explains the appearance of all these dodgy companies that offer bloggers (small amounts of) cash to write about their clients.
So, a question for you bloggers: if it became clear that Google could not identify paid-for text links, would you offer them? Or would that be unethical?
Mark raises an interesting question and I’m sure different bloggers would take a different stance on this.
I would never disguise advertising as editorial (perhaps this is the journalist in me coming out). I believe this is unethical and I would only accept paid text links if a) they were relevant and linked to quality content and b) I could publish them right next to a big disclaimer that told my readers that the link had been paid for. This lets the reader make up their own minds - but it also would tip off Google, so effectively it’s not possible for me.
In terms of how it all works and how Google finds out, Darren Rowse has written a lot about this issue at Problogger.net.
Having worked on both sides of the fence (for a large fmcg company, then a social media consultancy and now a start up) I think I can see both sides of the discussion about brands and how they approach bloggers. I really like Mark’s idea about having a forum where PRs and larger corporations could approach established bloggers without fear of reprisal / humiliation.
Indeed, as a newbie on the blogging scene, this would be also be helpful to people like me, who are new (and slightly nervous) of the rules of engagement!
Anna
Caitlin, thanks for your roundup. It’s great. It really helps capture what happened for those of us that couldn’t be there. It also sucks because it helps capture what happened for those of us that couldn’t be there.
I want to write LONG responses to many of your questions, but that’s bad comment behavior. A few short things, though…
On Alex Bainbridge: For me the power and attraction of blogging is the personal perspective. Though to say we can’t be better than the news to someone who lives in the country that broadcasts Fox news is just wrong. If you look at our local microblog, you’ll see a site that’s doing a better than the news job of keeping our community informed about local happenings.
On Adroll: I just started using it. I am seeing some income, but it’s pretty small, though it is outperforming Google Adsense for me.
On Karen’s comment about aggregation: I’m not sure what this means. I guess I’d like to know more.
On the STA: Yeah, I’m with the horrified. Their service is being trashed in the comments and they’re not responding? So not only do they have bad service, but they don’t care? Um. The open forum gives them an excellent chance to respond. I don’t get it. Okay, they’re not the CS dep’t, but why not get someone from CS on the job?
On the “content” debate: It’s just a word like “writing.” Journalists tend to have some training, bloggers tend to be self-taught, but that’s not always true. Either it’s good, well researched writing or it’s not. Not every journalist does their homework (I’ve seen lots of repurposed press releases while seeking information for my day job) and not every blogger is a lazy self-centered hack. The work defines its own merit, doncha think? Blogging is a format, some journalists use it. We need to get past this, it reminds me of the traveler/tourist debate.
Thanks so much for this. Man, I wish I’d been there!
Thanks for your response, Pam. In a nut shell, I think what Karen meant by ‘aggregation’ is not just being a closed shop but being willing to link out to great content on other blogs. Perhaps she can expand on this further?
I should clarify the situation with STA Travel. What Molly was saying was that they want the discussion to be honest and free and people not to feel like they have someone looking over their shoulder. So they’re willing to cope with a few negative comments from time to time, without feeling they have to respond with a bland “I’m so sorry you have that impression…” style comment. I don’t believe that their service is being trashed in the forums - that’s certainly not the impression she gave. I imagine if that happened routinely they would have to revisit their whole approach to social media but as it is the positivity vastly outweighs any complaints.
- Caitlin
I’m hearing a lot of people on the PR side of the fence saying that they want to know about the rules of engagement for dealing with bloggers.
I’m quite happy to write a post about my own rules for engagement if that would be useful for people. It’s not something I’ve really had to deal with as a blogger but I’m a journalist and travel writer as well so I’ve got my fair share of experience and opinions on the issue.
I do welcome feedback and comments from most quarters, and that certainly includes PR, but it’s also true to say that there ARE rules of engagement. Some behaviour can lead to win-win interactions, while other behaviour is just likely to tick me off. I’m happy to expound on that in a post.
For the views of other travel bloggers, Pam at Nerds Eye View who has posted the comment above actually hosts a forum for travel bloggers. This might be a conversation she would be willing to host there. What do you think, Pam?
Hi Caitlin, it was good to meet you at the Travel Blog Camp. What a great summary of the night you have put together. I enjoyed the night more than the WTM and I hope this becomes an annual event.
Pam - You can read my presentation notes here
http://www.europealacarte.co.uk/blog/2008/11/13/the-future-of-the-travel-blog-presentation-travel-blog-camp-london-11-november-2008/
What I mean by aggregation is a manually edited travel content site which has content selected from travel blogs and sites eg the best content about travel in Europe.
[...] Roamingtales [...]
Caitlin,
It would be great to read your rules of engagement. Fire away!
[...] Caitlin from Roaming Tales [...]
Hi Caitlin-
As I mentioned on Heather’s blog, this sounds like it was an extremely interesting & useful gathering for all involved.. as well as for those of us that get to reap the benefits of last night’s conversation via the many blog posts.
In any case, I plan on seeking out such events in the US. I’m fairly new to the independent travel blog world, but truly enjoy strategizing & theorizing about Google and its ever-changing algorithms & tactics.
Great summary, and very intriguing blog content in general!
Best,
Suz (a.k.a. Lil’ Boozie)
“3 Troopin’ Travelers”
Hi Caitlin
Written a ‘Travel Blog Camp in quotes’ post on my blog…
http://matthewparsons.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/in-quotes-travel-blog-camp/
But have had a few thoughts on the above comments
STA Travel Buzz - yes, I’m also bemused they’re not responding to comments. If you’re criticised, you should reply, no matter how long or short. This should be standard practice in the travel industry, and especially for operators.
Karen’s idea of aggregation contrasts sharply with Alex’s idea of blogging. I think Alex is spot on with his view that a (true?) blog has to be personal, and so can you call a website, that simply has feeds going into it, a blog? Yes, Karen is right that quality is what keeps people, but so does an interest in that particular person’s opinions…
Kevin’s debate on journalism and blogging was an eye opener. I’m fairly new to blogging, but coming from a traditional B2B magazine background, of course journalists are going to get involved. The phrase ‘publishing platform’ was bandied about a lot, and I think magazines will shift a lot of editorial content and analysis onto blogs, linking back to the news they’re producing. When it comes to editorial integrity, perhaps the same rules that apply to the magazine need to apply to that blog? I think the boundaries are still shifting, but what’s also important is tone.
[...] from On Her Travels Caitlin from Roaming Tales Guido from Happy Hotelier Alex from Musings on travel ecommerce Anthony from Mr and Mrs Smith Ben [...]
[...] Tales as well. It’s been a busy day on the travel blog as I’ve welcomed a bunch of chatty, new readers from the Travel Blog Camp and also published my latest Photo Friday [...]
Hi Caitlin,
Sorry I didn’t get a chance to introduce myself at Travel Blog Camp. In your post you said, “I was shocked because I didn’t think there were that many serious travel bloggers in the UK.” Acutally, I am based in Budapest and I spoke to at least one other person at Doggetts that was from outside the UK. We know 20% were PR people, but I wonder how many non-UK bloggers were there?
-jared
joobili.com
This is definitely true. For example, James from itravelnet is from Australia and the Happy Hotelier is from the Netherlands. - Caitlin.
You only have to look at how many Bloggers have posted their thoughts having attended the inaugral blog camp to see what a success Darren from Rants has made of this event.I’m sure that the organisors of next years WTM could find a spare seminar room and enough sponsors for next year, although is that really a good idea.
Unfortunatly I couldn’t get to WTM or the blog camp as have been laid up with a torn disc in my back. I am presuming that the success of the event was down to the Socialising and networking of like-minded people who may or may not have met each other, but feel like old friends from viewing each others blogs.
From my own point of view, I was interested to read how many Tour operators are starting to take note and wanting to know about blogging. As one of the few Travel Agencies with a Blog site, I think it very short-sighted of Operators not to be courting the likes of Select World Travel and others, which would help boost their sales.
We set out our blog to try and replicate what we do best as an Indepently owned small family business and to try and recreate a one stop shop so that, when we are closed our clients have a one stop shop to go to.
Not being technically minded, it would have been nice to speak to others in the Industry at Blog camp to see what they get out of their Blog and their aspirations for the future, also it would have been nice to talk about collaboration or how the Industry could work better together ( needed more than ever during recession)
The Travel Industry is full of Conferences ( too many actually) but there does seem room to have an annual Travel Blog Camp, and i just hope I can attend the next one.
[...] 2 Credit: RealFreshTV, 3 Credit: Peter Kim, 4 Credit: Chi-Chi Ekweozor, 5 Credit: Matt Parsons, 6 Caitlin, 7 Anna and Ben Colclough, 8 Darren [...]
Thanks for the round up Caitlin - you must have taken shorthand notes to remember all that!
Also want to add that it was great to meet bloggers like Darren, Alex, Karen and more in the real world aka the pub.
I’m slightly bemused that people got so aggro about STA’s approach, interrupting and almost shouting the speaker down for taking a hands-off approach in that particular STA environment. I think she is right in that there is a line to draw over company involvement in what is intended to be an open and inviting environment for travellers, rather than an obvious company vehicle.
TBH the fact that it is a corporate entity put me off from the start but a couple of months ago I signed up to STA Travel Buzz’s feed because it has obviously attracted an interesting traffic set. Would that content be there in an environment perceived to be a heavily moderated vehicle for company PR? I’m not sure it would.
Same with Lonely Planet’s Thorn Tree forums - fiercely independent and thankfully free of book selling. So people feel free to go there and talk travel.
In a conversation afterwards Molly seemed to be saying that if it was a big issue with STA at fault, then there would be some contact with that person to resolve it.
Molly might want to clarify that, though, as she didn’t say it was policy in her presentation.
Thank you for your input, Fiona. I did indeed take shorthand! I’m glad that someone has spoken up in support of STA’s stance, as I think it is definitely a case where I can see both sides of the argument. - Caitlin.
Another thought…
No one’s mentioned the Lonely Planet’s bribe to provide content or echo content back to them. I’m not sure I fully understood the offering as paid-for posts, links from LP and also moderated ads (no competitors allowed) were mentioned, and this is new territory for me as a non-ad blogger.
Can anyone enlighten? I’m not sure what the implications of getting in bed with LP are…
I often end up aggregating info from conversations that take place on the LP’s Thorn Three forums into posts on what to wear in that country (whattowearwhere.wordpress.com) with links back to them so I feel as if I’m doing this work anyway…
The Lonely Planet guy has my card and said that he would be in touch in few days. I don’t recall what he was hoping we could do for him but I’m happy to find out and make a decision at that time. - Caitlin.
What the night needed was a moderator, someone who could move the discussions on. I’m not a public person, but I did feel sorry for Molly, and that’s why I jumped in and stopped the debate.
As for Matthew and Lonely Planet, nice chatp, but that was something that was thrown to me on the night, more will become clear, but I think that they are looking for more content, and people to write it in return for revenue.
I’ll get him to clarify the purpose though.
Thank you for all of your comments though, it’s great (and makes me feel good) that everyone had a good night.
Room for improvement, but not a bad gathering for the first event of this type.
[...] well as my own summary,the following bloggers who attended the event have written about it on their own [...]
[...] was taking enough photos to start a Blogger’s society page. I also chatted to Caitlin from Roaming Tales who has also written a nice summary of the evening on her [...]
Hi Caitlin Thanks for the round up